The Hollow Men

I have been rather depressed by the Mr. Neilsen comment concerning "sexual context" in the poem. Well, it certainly is freudian-like but apart from agreeing with the comment about reading Konrad's novel, I'd also like to add that from my point of view the poem also has to do with Dante's Inferno, since these are not "lost violent souls" but "the hollow men, the stuffed men", though, naturally, Dante is not enough to be able to appreciate Eliot's poetry properly. As for "freudian" comments, I think that they merely simplify things, thus leaving interpreters no chance to really understand poetry or anything else. The comment in question shows quite explicitly how a philosophical masterpiece may be spoiled by a careless reader.

to SN -
The Shadow falls between the idea/reality, motion/act, not ambiguously amoung these concepts. The idea is what is worshipped, the concept thrown out. The motion is worshipped, the act carelessly discarded. The fifth section, at least, is a direct reference to religion (for thine is the kingdom, etc.), and what he is trying to tell us about religion is that it is focusing in the wrong places (the shadow). The poem makes absolutely direct connections to religion, and whether or not there are other things in it about war or sexuality, the religious references are there. Also, no one yet has commented on the fact that the world ends in a whimper. If it was referencing war, the world would end in a bang. The world ends in a whimper because of these peoples screwed up beliefs and lack of testicles. They choose to not pursue their own religious beliefs, so they wind up following other hollow men into nothingness.

As always the a poem can be analysed anyway, but i also feel that this poem has a Post Trench War feel. The hollow men are those ravaged by the horrors, but have survived. They wander the carnage dazed and horrified. They too should have died. There are much references to "Deaths other kingdom", and they feel that they are in some horrible purgatory after the neverending war. The second half of the poem deals with thoughts on religion and spirtualsim; after all, how can there be a god if he allows such destruction? They try to remember the Lords prayer, but only get so far as "For thine is the Kingdom", and the fact that they can never get to the second part "The power and the glory" shows they feel there is no God and beleive in nothing. And this is how the world ends, not with a bang from the war, but the desolation and the lack of spiritualism (theyre hollow now, if you will). I like to think. Its a powerful reminder on war that all governments should recall before going to war. Hint hint.

In T.S. Eliot’s “The Hollow Men”, and in F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby, the reader is confronted by an unsavory view of humanity. Both Fitzgerald and Eliot show that society is constantly de-evolving, both morally and spiritually. There are numerous similarities between these two works. However, the differences in the author’s view of modern life distinguish these as two unique and original pieces.
The diction of both authors is extremely precise. This precision of diction leads to the effective conveyance of all other literary conventions, and thus, the authors’ styles. In “The Hollow Men”, the diction initially appears muddled. This is because the reader does not accept the ideas that Eliot is trying to convey. The passage “In this valley of dying stars | In this hollow valley | This broken jaw of our lost kingdom”(Eliot, lines 54-56) might lead the reader to try to work out some type of muddled metaphor. The diction in this passage is intended only to evoke strong feelings associated with “broken jaw”, “hollow valley” and “dying stars”. Fitzgerald’s diction, on the other hand is made clear solely through his precise use of words: “It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor.” Every word is used in its accurate and literal definition to complete the dramatic effect.
Symbolism is used extensively throughout the works of Fitzgerald and Eliot and assists us in comprehending their style. In “The Hollow Men” almost every word is linked to some symbol of moral downfall. This symbolic density leads to a feeling of symbolic intensity. Eliot packs the repeated symbolic meaning in a hope that some of it will be remembered. Correct moral action is composed not only of action, but also of ‘seeing’ what is correct, ‘speaking’ the truth. The passage “The eyes are not here| There are no eyes here| Inn this valley of dying stars| In this hollow valley| This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms” shows that modern people are incapable of seeing what the correct course of action is (“There are no eyes here…”) and also incapable of speaking correctly of their fellows (“This broken jaw…”). The “lost kingdom” might pertain to the kingdom that existed when morality was still present in daily life. The symbolism in The Great Gatsby is much more sparse, but it is still just as intense when it is presented. The symbolic Valley of Ashes is described early in the book and is recurs several times. This Valley is described as “a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens, where ashes take the form of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air.” People who live in the Valley might start out full of life, but soon have their vitality sucked from them. This can be interpreted as symbolic of the times in which we live, where a man might start out life full of morals and faith, but soon has them sucked from him by the ethical vacuum of modern society.
The undertones of both works were surprisingly similar when one considers the diversity of the works themselves. One could interpret the undertone of The Great Gatsby as futility. This is justified by the activities, traits, and backgrounds of all of the characters in the book. Every character, whether their early life was uncorrupt or not, became imperfect. Gatsby, for example, began life as a hard worker, who was aiming to reform the world, “ ‘Jimmy was bound to get ahead…Do you notice what he’s got about improving his mind?’ ” (Mr. Gatz to Nick), but ended his life as a mobster chasing an unattainable dream. Even Wilson, a seemingly perfect character, showed his imperfection when he killed himself and Gatsby. When it seems that every person is bound for downfall, it is futile even to try. The undertone of “The Hollow Men” is slightly different, but similarly meaningful. It is the idea of waste as represented by the Shadow. “Between the idea |and the reality| between the motion| and the act| falls the Shadow” The shadow falls between the idea and the reality, and thus stops the reality from occurring. The idea is then wasted, because it was not brought to an active fruition. An alternate undertone for “the Hollow Men” is the same one as in The Great Gatsby: futility. Most people desire to end their lives with a bang, to go out swinging. Nobody wants to end his or her life with a whimper. Thus if “This is the way the world ends| Not with a bang but a whimper” is interpreted as meaning the true end of the individual world, the reader gets a sense of futility.
Although the undertones were similar, the tones were very different. The overall tone of The Great Gatsby was humanity (or the lack thereof). This was made most clear through the difference in the ‘humanity level’ between East and West Egg. Although no character was morally perfect, there was a marked contrast between East and West Egg. West Egg seems to house characters that have a better concept of humanity. These characters are Nick and Gatsby. They could and did consider other people’s feelings and lives before acting. The inhabitants of East Egg, however, do not concern themselves with others’ feelings. The tone of “The Hollow Men” is death and spirituality. Throughout the poem, various references are made to religion and death. The “multifoliate rose” on line 64 is a reference to “Dante Paradisio”. Toward the end of “The Hollow Men”, several references are made to the Lord’s Prayer: “For thine is the kingdom…. For Thine is the kingdom…For Thine is…For Thine is the…”.
Another difference between the styles of Fitzgerald and Eliot is their use of imagery. In The Great Gatsby ‘sugar-coated’ imagery is more common than images that show corruption. Most of the images that show the modern society as a farce are associated with the Valley of Ashes: “occasionally a line of grey cars crawls along an invisible track, gives out a ghastly creak and comes to rest, and immediately the ash-grey men swarm up with leaden spades…”. These ‘dirty images’ are never near East or West Egg. The Eggs exist to show a superficial splendor that is so gaudy it appears sickly. The imagery in “The Hollow Men” is much more intense. Instead of being superficial splendor interspersed with glimpses of the underlying decay, it is an almost uninterrupted view of decay and darkness. From the beginning of the poem Eliot presents the reader with dark images: “Or rats’ feet over broken glass | in our dry cellar”. The images are carried through all the way to the end with “Falls the Shadow” and “This is the way the world ends”.
Although the points of view that the authors express are nearly identical, there is one fundamental difference. In Eliot’s “The Hollow Men”, nobody is specifically exempt from being considered hollow; everyone is included under “We are the hollow men…”. However, in The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald leaves room for redemption. Throughout most of the story, the reader is presented with the idea that nobody is perfect, or even incorruptible. Near the end, however, when Mr.Gatz produces the young Jay Gatsby’s copy of Hopalong Cassidy, it becomes apparent that children have the capacity to be non-corrupt and pure. Indeed, the younger Gatsby had aimed to improve the world as well as himself. When we are presented with this idea of blissful and blessed childhood, it carries with it the promise of adult fruition. That is the one fundamental difference between Eliot and Fitzgerald. Eliot originally presented the idea of a corrupt modern society. Fitzgerald was inspired by Eliot and added one important idea to the mix: hope. And through that hope a promise of blessed triumph on “one fine morning”.

I had done this poet for a poetry project when I was in school. I had happed to stumble upon this poem and found it suitable enough to be analyzed for my paper. I believe that T.S. Eliot is talking about the effects war has on human beings. The men come back hollow(feeling empty and without emotion) and regretting that their lives were spared over others. The men feel that there's no point in continuing on a morbid path to your death. They will always feel sad and remember how traumatizing undergoing the events of war were. There are some parts in the poem that do relate to religion but I rather not go into the complexities of explianing the poem piece by piece. I only wish you could enjoy his poetry as much as I do.

I have some background that might help with the understanding of the poem. I took the information from my literature book (The Norton Anthology of American Literature). The line "Mistah Kurtz--he dead." is a quotation from the Heart of Darkness, by Joseph jungle as an official of a trading company and degenerated into an evil, tyrannical man. His dying words were "the horror!" The line "A penny for the Old Guy" refers to a person, Guy Fawkes, who led a group of conspirators who planned to blow up the English House of Commons in 1605; he was caught and executed before the plan was carried out. On the day of his execution (Nov. 5) children make straw effigies of the "guy" and beg for pennies for fireworks. I wonder if that is where line 4 "Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!" gets the straw reference as well. Line 64 "Multifoliate rose" is a reference to Part 3 of The Divine Comedy, by Dante Alighieri which is a vision of paradise. The soulds of the saved in heaven range themselves around the deity in the figure of a "multifoliate rose" (Paradiso 28.30). Well, I hope it helped.

I'm not sure how many even paid attention to it, but at the very begining, "Mistah Kurtz - he dead" is a direct reference to Mr. Kurtz from The Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Likewise, "a penny for the Old Guy" is a reference to Guy Fawkes (for those of you not familiar with British history or the tradition of Guy Fawkes Day, google search it because I don't feel like explaining it). Both of these men had "direct eyes", that is, they knew what they wanted and how to get to their goal (however much they failed) and both went out with a "bang" (Kurtz: "The horror, the horror!" and Guy Fawkes was executed, I believe). I believe Eliot is commenting on reality in this poem. For most people, their voices are "dry" and never heard. Also, most people don't die in a truly exceptional way, no matter what we'd like to believe. Usually, they die an insignificant death - like a "whimper".
If you don't agree with my interpretation, well, that's the beauty of Free Will. Either way, hopefully the historical and literary background information helped.