Comment -610 of , added on October 18th, 2005 at 12:17 PM.
Well, are you all happy now? I tried to be objective, I tried to defend
Moe a little bit because he became the underdog on this site. But now, he
has been driven away. Goodbye, Moe. Why should people be so cruel to
others. I do remember Moe simply asking questions. They might have been
bad questions, or they might have been asked the wrong way; however,
regardless of what they were, they offended some people on this site. If
some people would be more moderate in their responses and try to enforce
understanding rather than striking each other in the throats, I'm sure
there would be less hatred and malice--not just on this site, but also in
the world. People are too easily offended. Whether it's fueled by a
culture difference or not, it doesn't matter because people can always
apologize for miscommunicating or unintentional harm and they can always be
forgiven. This isn't so in this case. Whatever is said, people seem to
take it to heart (good or bad) and they never let the speaker forget. This
is spite and revenge. The reason why I always defended Moe was because he
was getting too much hammered by everyone else, that my criticism of him
would be useless. People, poetry and the person who writes it are two
completely different things. You have to set a clear understanding between
the two. You could be a really obnoxious person, but still write beautiful
poetry. I thought Moe was obnoxious and rude and he gave Americans a bad
image. I defended him because he was attacked for simply being the way he
is. For simply stating his opinions. I don't have to ally myself with him
or his opinions, but I can defend his right to say what he wants to say.
Freedom of expression is a powerful component in Art. Without this
freedom, Art is useless. So how can you all defend John Mark's poetry,
while pushing Moe to stop writing. You have no right to say that. Freedom
of expression goes so far as to allow someone to say what they want as long
as they don't deliberately use their art to hurt people. Moe's poem, in my
opinion, was a wonderful analysis of American history and ideals. It was
his way of expressing himself, and it offended no one. To say that the
poem was crap just because you didn't like Moe that much at all doesn't
make sense. You weren't criticizing his poetry, you were criticizing him.
If you want to criticize people, then do it on another site, because this
site was not meant for that. I'm not saying that anyone should leave this
site; I'm saying that no one should attack others based on their beliefs
and personalities. I feel like I'm just talking to a wall because you
people never try to change your attitudes to the extent that you would
forgive Moe just a little bit. "To err is Human; to forgive is Divine."
You should take this advice more often and stick with writing poetry rather
than just being mean.
Oh, before I forget...J. Mark, I read your comment. Like you, I feel that
I'm much better at writing prose than verse. However, I think that genius
can emerge when faced with restriction. You simply work around the limits
and create something plausible to the structure, which is also just as
powerful as a poem in prose. I think is was Frost's way of thinking:
genius under restriction. I want to improve myself in verse so that I can
incorporate my meanings in many different forms. Whenever I write a poem
in verse, and it looks like it really hits the mark, then I feel a greater
sense of accomplishment because I achieved something while being under
restriction. You can also play with verse, just like Marianne Moore did.
I also don't understand what you were saying in the second half of your
comment, the part with the spilling of the tea on the Baroness and the two
alternative answers. Were you referring to Moe when you wrote that? It's
just that the latter alternative, as you stated, was written in comment
#262. But this isn't so, because I wrote comment #262 and the
aforementioned alternative was written in #263, by Moe. Maybe this was a
simple error. If you were addressing Moe, then it looks like you won't get
an answer to your question. I could answer it for him, I know what he
would probably have said. I think that anyone placed in his situation on
this site would say the same thing. So how about it? Trying answering it
yourself as you imagine what it was like while being persecuted. I can't
point fingers at anyone in particular, because it seems that we're all
guilty in one way or another.
I've got to stop writing so much whenever I make a comment--it's taking up
so much of my time!!! :(
TjB from United States
Comment -611 of , added on October 18th, 2005 at 10:55 AM.
I give up, at least I tried to apologize, how about you?
If you guys read further down you'll see that this whole thing wasnt
started by me, I never put out the first insult, I was just asking
questions. I'm sorry for trying to defend myself a little bit at the end
of my comments. This will be my last post.
Moe from United States
Comment -612 of , added on October 18th, 2005 at 5:55 AM.
TjB, I agree with your comments on a few things. You say that verse and
poetry are equal. To me, prose is more powerful because rhyme is
Second of all, you say that there is no bad poetry. My motto is...There is
no bad poetry, only bad poets.
The second is referring to Moe. You defend yourself in comment 262. Tell
me, if you were eating dinner with the Baroness of England, and you
accidentally spilled tea on her, would you say, "Sorry, your Baroness, I am
so sorry!" (yes) or "A sad miscommunication im sorry...i dont mean to
insult anyone. People just cant handle the slightest opposition, makes them
uptight because they question what they believe lol." (no!) The latter is
from your comment in comment number 262. Thank you for your time, and
Joodie, keep writing! And the rest of you!
John Mark III from United Kingdom
Comment -613 of , added on October 18th, 2005 at 5:26 AM.
I've been reading this site for a while and I have found out why everyone
gets t.o.'ed at Moe. It's because he always apologizes, but, for example,
at the end of comment he will put something rude, "i dont mean to insult
anyone. People just cant handle the slightest opposition, makes them
uptight because they question what they believe lol." He just said that
Elga or whoever was uptight. SO now she'll get on again and be mad at you.
Moe, your problem is that you always are trying to put in the last word.
You need to stop. It's just stupid and you're acting childish. If you act
this way again I will tell your mother. I know right now you are thinking,
"What???", but trust me, you better watch out.
Starla from United States
Comment -614 of , added on October 18th, 2005 at 12:47 AM.
Don't worry, Moe, you weren't hurting anyone intentionally, you were simply
giving J. Mark's poem criticism. If you can't bear the pressure of
criticism as a poet, then you simply can't use that criticism to improve.
Criticism is a very good thing for writers. It provides feedback and (good
criticism) offers advice. I could go on all day about how J. Mark's poem
does not connect with Frost's standards because it is simply not a poem in
verse. Frost had expressed throughout his lifetime that he could never
write a poem in prose since it goes against his belief in poetic language.
This caused difficulties with many other writers at the time because they,
unlike Frost, favored prose over verse. It's nothing to be worried about
if a poem isn't identical to someone else's--it just means that you have
your own poetic voice and form. The meaning can be the same (which is the
important part), but the structure doesn't always matter. J. Mark, your
first poem is up to par with Frost's, it's just (in my opinion) something
Frost may not have entirely accepted. But the times have changed and verse
seems to be diminishing as more and more people experiment with prose. I
personally am divided between prose and verse. However, I don't think
either one is better than the other. This is some proper criticism. I've
weighed down the good and bad aspects of the poem (to me, there weren't
really any bad aspects). But how you respond to it (all of you) is
entirely up to you, so is your choice whether to revise a poem based off of
criticism or not. I'm not just talking to J. Mark and Moe, I'm talking to
all of you. So everybody, let's just give up this harmful charade of
name-calling and boo-hooing.
TjB from United States
Comment -615 of , added on October 17th, 2005 at 9:00 PM.
I never insulted anyones poetry until a few messags ago.
I said I didnt agree with j marks interpretation poem, but i said that i
like it. After that everyone took it as an insult and then insulted my
poem. A sad miscommunication im sorry...i dont mean to insult anyone.
People just cant handle the slightest opposition, makes them uptight
because they question what they believe lol.
Moe from United States
Comment -616 of , added on October 17th, 2005 at 8:26 PM.
Moe, I believe that prose poetry is just as powerful as verse poetry.
Fifty percent of poetry these days is prose. Verse may be the traditional
high and lofty form of poetry, but it can become just as meaningless as any
prose poem without meaning. This is the problem these days: Many people
write something down on paper and call it prose. It doesn't have to make
sense or have any meaning, it's just poetry. I disagree with this.
Poetry, to me, is expression. If you just write something down and call it
prose without giving it enough thought (or any at all) then it isn't a very
good poem. I believe that there are no bad poems out there, because
whatever one writes, it can always be revised or expanded into something
better. I am not pointing fingers at anyone and I don't think that there
is a single bad poet on this site. We all have room for improvement and
that's much better than being someone who is the very best, but can do no
better with their poetry.
However, Moe, I understand your frustration. You simply stated your
opinion once (although you could be a little less arrogant and proud when
you write--don't worry I have a great deal of pride myself) and you're
being hammered by everyone else for it. I actually feel very disgusted at
how all of our comments seem to be turning into childish name-calling when
this site was simply meant for posting our opinions of "The Road Not
Taken." Since when has this turned into a chat-site? I hate it when
people put other people down for stating their beliefs, just because they
don't agree with them. It's a personal attack that draws away from what
the discussion is about. But I hate it even more when some of us call
other people's poetry crap. That's not criticism, that's verbal abuse.
This is a poetry website, not a chat-site. My point is, is that I'm very
disappointed in those who hammer others on this site just because they have
stated their opinions. This is a site promoting the freedom of expression.
Anyone can come on to this site and say what they want. Moe, I do think
you have become very curt, but I see where you're comin from. All of you,
I know where you're all coming from. But this abuse has got to stop.
There, I got out everything that was on my mind. Thankyou. Keep on
TjB from United States
Comment -617 of , added on October 17th, 2005 at 8:12 PM.
Someone keeps impersonating me!!! Omg!!!! Who could it be????
Jenny from Armenia
Comment -618 of , added on October 17th, 2005 at 7:53 PM.
Tjb, I will anser your question yes i did write that. I think Moe does not
understand poetry and is putting everyone down. I am an excellent poetry
writer and love poetry altogether, but when some twit like moe comes around
and starts insulting everyones poetry I put my foot down! Meaness is a
horrible thing moe so quit it I am an old lady and in all my years I have
never met someone who was so negative. keep writing poetry everyone, even
if moe is jealous
Elga Shinkle from Australia
Comment -619 of , added on October 17th, 2005 at 7:45 PM.
I think TJB is right and we are all wrong, you cant dismiss somebody's
poetry if it really poetry. I remember: Serpico is a movie about a cop
named Serpico who exposes the corruptness of the NYPD back in the 1970's--
a true story, I suggest it to anyone. Serpico could have joined in on and
capitalized on the unlawlessness of the situation, but instead he risked
his life to expose the NYPD with the help of the New York Times. Al Pacino
plays the lead role, and when he interviewed the real Serpico:
Pacino: "So why did you do it."
Serpico: "Because if I didn't, who would I be when I listened to a piece
He's right, who are people to write poetry and then be so mean, it is
contradictory and shameful. Dont you agree?
Moe from United States