I always like to read your observations, clematis! Well, “daughter” is not ment in a genetic way. It´s more in a metaphorical way - somebody who “learns” from de Sade is inspired by him, and so he becomes the intellectual “father”…
the last two lines are revealing, but only in a superficial way… she begs for something that stops her pain, but that doesn´t mean she automatically gets a lustful feeling through it - altough she hopes so. maybe she has always failed to feel lust?..
aha! so that’s what its all about - i’m afraid i took the last two lines at face value - in fact it’s not revealing at all - just the opposite - it conceals more than it reveals & that adds so much more depth & interest in the poem - making it quite fascinating!
well daughter is metaphoric - i understand that - sade was what - 17th -18th cen?
sade it is said inspired a lot of movements - literary or otherwise - most famous of course is sadism - it is said he was a forerunner of Freud, surrealism & existentialism - perhaps even pornography- extreme libertine - took the whole concept of sexuality to its limits - in fact broke all limits - i dont doubt that he was an explorer of sorts - he was also confined to the mental asylum for a great number of years & wrote a lot of his stuff in confinement & like all such figures - fascinating.
but what is of interest to me is that you hold him as a father figure! even in a metaphoric - intellectual way! that is not to say i disapprove (not that it matters!)
but i find your piece of even greater interest after the revealation of the last lines! very fascinating indeed!
about lust - i always thought it was a pretty automatic feeling! a natural phenomena! but i maybe wrong!
roy would love this! he absolutely believes in lust! i dont think he can wrong me on that & i can quote him on that fearlessly! you just have to read some of his poems - whatever other feelings one might have of love…friendship..etc..etc.. lust is never far behind!
sade himself was a great believer of lust: “Lust is to the other passions what the nervous fluid is to life; it supports them all, lends strength to them all ambition, cruelty, avarice, revenge, are all founded on lust.”
nothing more fascinating than the human mind - & your poem proves that!
just love the way you say so much in such few lines!
but i seriously hope you’ll be inspired to silence that pain!
Comments (9)
July 8th, 2009 at 2:47 am
hi lisz!
so difficult to negotiate the site with all the advertising -
love the ambiguity in your poem - De Sade what a character!
“It is always by way of pain one arrives at pleasure.” - De Sade
i’m on a quoting spree today!
Whatever it takes
To silent my pain!
i think the last two lines should not be so revealing - being Sade’s daughter you should be asking for the opposite! (pulling your leg!)
but i love the opening:
Tame my lost mind
Lead it astray!
perhaps the last stanza should read:
Please, take my hand
And help me to gain
Whatever it takes
from pleasure to pain!
July 8th, 2009 at 2:50 am
& pleasure again!
July 8th, 2009 at 9:13 am
I always like to read your observations, clematis!
Well, “daughter” is not ment in a genetic way. It´s more in a metaphorical way - somebody who “learns” from de Sade is inspired by him, and so he becomes the intellectual “father”…
the last two lines are revealing, but only in a superficial way… she begs for something that stops her pain, but that doesn´t mean she automatically gets a lustful feeling through it - altough she hopes so. maybe she has always failed to feel lust?..
July 8th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
ad) the last two lines are revealing, but only - in a superficial way of understanding
July 9th, 2009 at 2:50 am
aha! so that’s what its all about - i’m afraid i took the last two lines at face value - in fact it’s not revealing at all - just the opposite - it conceals more than it reveals & that adds so much more depth & interest in the poem - making it quite fascinating!
well daughter is metaphoric - i understand that - sade was what - 17th -18th cen?
sade it is said inspired a lot of movements - literary or otherwise - most famous of course is sadism - it is said he was a forerunner of Freud, surrealism & existentialism - perhaps even pornography- extreme libertine - took the whole concept of sexuality to its limits - in fact broke all limits - i dont doubt that he was an explorer of sorts - he was also confined to the mental asylum for a great number of years & wrote a lot of his stuff in confinement & like all such figures - fascinating.
but what is of interest to me is that you hold him as a father figure! even in a metaphoric - intellectual way! that is not to say i disapprove (not that it matters!)
but i find your piece of even greater interest after the revealation of the last lines! very fascinating indeed!
about lust - i always thought it was a pretty automatic feeling! a natural phenomena! but i maybe wrong!
roy would love this! he absolutely believes in lust! i dont think he can wrong me on that & i can quote him on that fearlessly! you just have to read some of his poems - whatever other feelings one might have of love…friendship..etc..etc.. lust is never far behind!
sade himself was a great believer of lust: “Lust is to the other passions what the nervous fluid is to life; it supports them all, lends strength to them all ambition, cruelty, avarice, revenge, are all founded on lust.”
nothing more fascinating than the human mind - & your poem proves that!
just love the way you say so much in such few lines!
but i seriously hope you’ll be inspired to silence that pain!
July 11th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
dear clematis, i thank you for your critics and comments… i would love to discuss these matters with you.
July 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
would you?
July 13th, 2009 at 2:09 am
love to!
fire away!!
July 16th, 2009 at 6:33 am
momentarily i am in Morocco… and it is strange… here you get a special feeling for lust and its potential