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The truth is:
I don’t know
the truth anymore.
Leaves of reason fall.
The wind howls
in and out
of hollowed trunks
screeching like a banshee.
Branches break -
roots of sense shake
I am on a senseless spree.
I find myself sitting
on a dead tree-trunk,
amidst the swamps,
that no one ever visits.
No man’s land
they call it -
abandoned by gods,
aborted in haste –
a failed experiment –
that bore no fruit.
Everything hangs
perfectly still in the bog.
No breath of air escapes -
time does not intervene.
Nothing grows nothing decays
in this perversely frozen zone.
My knees are submerged
in a swirl that does not stir.
The flash of the butterfly
has battered its wings -
the mind does not think.
Senses are stilled -
splendid desolation
screams a dead scream.
Let them not find me here –
they will throw a noose
of sparkling gems –
rubies will dig the flesh
& draw blood –
vultures at the throat.
Poisoned fangs
of sapphires will pierce
the ears in blue flames
of heat. Silver anklets
will chain my feet.
Decked like a bride
they will drag me up
the mountain side
for the ultimate sacrifice.
The price of escape is: life
My body will be placed
on carefully burning logs.
The sun will sink underneath.
Yellow flames will lick me clean,
but the brain – oh… the brain -
does not burn. They will have to
prod the ashes and take out the skull
and crack it open…
By the time I spill…
it will be midnight…blue,
the sky, hard glints; the stars.
There will be no moon.
II
The train is full –
lurching forward
like a drunk.
Everyone looks familiar
but I don’t know anyone.
Flames are reflected
in their eyes - I’m still
on fire. Their shrill
screams flatten under
steel wheels.
Bags are whizzing,
flying up and down
the escalators –
past men in uniforms
with sniffer-dogs.
Outside the children
have lined the streets
with begging bowls -
scarlet flowers drop
down from the tree above
filling their bowls with blood.
Their death-sentence is: life
The truth is:
I don’t know the truth anymore.
I’m waiting for movement
worms to wiggle &
mulch the drying rot,
break new ground - soft green
instead of the leathery feel.
I’m not in control –
life is dragging me to the ends -
my heels are marking ground.
The truth is:
I don’t know the truth anymore.
III
Blood has spilled the streets,
mothers are beating their breasts.
Fathers look stone-eyed
at the flesh of their flesh
scattered like blossoms
flowers to be picked –
gathered in caskets -
planted under the earth.
Vampires are holding a party
in formal dress –
a ghost band is playing,
former victims are rattling
their bones – Bob Dylan is
singing masters of war:
‘You hide in your mansion
As young people’s blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud’
truth: lies
& bites…
…the dust…
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Comments (54)
November 4th, 2008 at 5:45 am
ida, yann, ray, deb & everybody else sending you the site where you can hear a brilliant recital by sir douglas falstaff of this poem & ‘what dreams invade’ - by my other name - rashmi prakash.
well.. poems languish without a voice & people to lend their ears - hope you guys will find the time to listen in - he’s really done a great job in springing dead words to life!
here’s the site:
http://thejeunessedoree.libsyn.com/
November 4th, 2008 at 5:46 am
& of course i do hope you guys will also find the time to comment -
ye god! that’s an awful lot of time!
November 4th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Hi Clematis let’s give a medal everytime I read a long poem, I wish to be decorated for that….Just joking…
your poem seems to me a doubting questionning about thinking…I like very much the poem except the final stanza with vampires and Bob Dylan which is confusing to my humble eyes. All is perfectly expressed with deep verses ….You are so skillful.
the line :The truth is:
I don’t know the truth anymore. is a very good punctuation to the poem and its signication….As always there are plenty of images that conveys our minds in unexplored territories….
I could say so much remarks about your work ….Simply it is a very well crafted work and very enjoyable to read….
Thanks
yann
November 4th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Clematis ! Another masterpiece here , bravo ! I enjoyed this poem , a true work of art !!
Best regards !
Friend Thad
November 5th, 2008 at 12:49 am
thanks yann - & i’m decorating you! i really am!! you wont believe this but i really thought of you reading this poem when i posted it! & i said dear god i wonder how you’ll get thru this & you did you really did! & that deserves a medal!
in fact everyone who goes thru this real long long poem - they all deserve a medal of bravery - it is so so long!!
you have got the general drift of the poem yann & i’m really happy about it.
the poem actually has no logic - in fact i was going to call it - beyond reason - & it is beyond reason - search me i dont know what i mean myself - i just wrote it the way it came.
it is a kind of surrealistic poem in accordance with the surrealism of life.
bob dylan composed & sang this song called masters of war - against war & the people who wage it. it is an excellent piece &very well written - if you’re interested i’ll send you the lyrics - really worth reading.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:51 am
thad - thank you so much for reading & the kind words - i’m so thrilled you enjoyed the poem!
November 5th, 2008 at 1:23 am
“Their death sentence is: life” What a beautiful, soul touching poem, Clematis. Just the way I feel sometimes “The truth is: I don’t know the truth anymore.”
Ida
November 5th, 2008 at 2:21 am
thanks for reading & exactly ida…that’s the truth
but i hope things will change now - post bush - def. for the better.
well thank god obama won! i think art will be a much relieved man!
we’re celebrating here too! it’s a victory for the whole world!
November 5th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Hey Clem — First the world revolves around you and then Dead Swirl? I’ve not been on here much lateley and am too snockered after the election to comment intelligently, or if not intelligently at least gently, so won’t. Tonight, anyway.
Came here just to let you know I’ve seen your comments on some of my older stuff and am really flattered that you go back to read it. Really flattered!!!
More soon when I’m regularly on line again.
roy
November 5th, 2008 at 4:32 am
yea the election excitement!! i can imagine! it’s got us here as well! what a great big fat relief!
there’s some good stuff there & i enjoy reading it! your lines speak to me & so i respond otherwise i wouldnt!
& yea first it did & now it’s a dead swirl & then it revovles & ceases & so it goes on…
this is a very peculiar poem & i can say truthfully i dont know how it came to me - i havent edited it - as you can see its damn long - & everyone who read it said it should be trimmed & so it should but once they heard it they changed their minds!
anyways i’m just thrilled to hear from you you’re so hard to get - i dont know if i use the term correctly - or if i’m not using it in the way it is meant you will excuse me i’m sure - but i have to really holler & that’s again an american word - holler - the british would say shout or scream & we’re more familiar here with the proper english ways…anyways as i was saying i have to really holler shout & scream before you lend me your ears & eyes …of course you have to read as you can hardly hear me…thank god…but as i was saying i have to really holler shout & scream to get a scrap of attention - anyways its always nice to get it. as you can see my hunting days are just about getting over - i hardly lay any traps anymore…hardly…& a stricter control over the damn fingers…o i’m such a picture of control… i cannot but admire myself.
do you read the new yorker on the net? someone sent me the article below… damn interesting reading:
The New Yorker: Works on Paper: The letters of Elizabeth Bishop and Robert Lowell
November 6th, 2008 at 12:30 am
got over your election hangover as yet or not? i guess it’s too early - everyone here is still excited.
i’m so looking forward to your intelligent / gentle / gentlemanly comments - the suspense is killing me..so be kind enough to recover
November 6th, 2008 at 12:36 am
o shit - big blow up - the mains just blew - my comp is on the inverter so it’s still on - but i have to make way..for more urgent work…
November 6th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Hi clematis! I just listened to the two readings, and was totally blown away! Astonishingly beautiful—words and sound! I was so enthralled I didn’t try to comprehend meaning—will do that later—but drowned myself in the sheer lyrical beauty of the songs. I am so proud of and for you, these are remarkable achievements, and they are the enduring kind.
Regards,
art
November 7th, 2008 at 1:13 am
thanks art - thank you so much - you’re always ever so generous in praise!
i’m so happy you found the time to listen - it is quite a rendering! & i was really thrilled by the offer!
as long as you enjoyed the songs - thats what matters!
i wouldnt sweat on comprehending the meaning!
November 7th, 2008 at 4:06 am
I am in awe…. Have not listened to the recording, have yet to hook up my speakers and am resisting the same, wanting to be a Luddite among troglodytes, I am… But, I can see you agree, Truth matters not when beauty lies…. While I love it, I do wonder why you write it (that is the psychoanalyst in me), and especially why you write: The price of escape is: life
I don’t know why I make this association, but have you ever read the really good works of Nikos Kazanzakis? No, not Zorba the Greek or The Last Temptation of Christ, but “Freedom or Death” — his best work, though he would say otherwise. His epitaph reads: I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free. To which I would simply add “I know nothing, therefor I am free.”
Truth Lies — I know nothing…
I will hook my speakers back up soon — Or, while I am travelling will listen with my laptop. This reads like a marvelous performance piece — though, I have to say, I am tempted to record it before I hear someone else’s interpretation…
November 10th, 2008 at 1:16 am
wonder why i write at all…
i was hoping you would explain… play the psychoanalyst
the price of escape is life - cuts bothways - i’m learning about double entendres
zorba the greek was a movie - must try & read nikos - freedom or death sounds fun.
did you hear it?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:52 am
Zorba was a book first….
November 11th, 2008 at 5:19 am
I see a strange sort of, Apocolypse now, dream state - armageddonish vision going on.
This is my interpretive voice/
Its late here in NZ, I am writing from the future. Tuesday night.11.03 pm.
I am going to read this again, I can see me in the scarlet flowers dropping into the bowls of children.
I will come back.
Yes, I will find time in to listen to the recital.
this is a beautiful piece…inspires me to lengthen my walks…..
love Deb
November 11th, 2008 at 5:22 am
I have just googled you…do you have a masters in Literature and do you live in India?
The internet is so immediate for information.
What an interesting soul you are.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:57 am
good grief! that sounds like me - hope there was no other info revealed - god! the internet is intrusive as hell! next thing you know they’ll google you while you’re sitting on the pot! ye god!
they’ve made me out to be an interesting soul eh? well they better otherwise i’ll sue them! & educated too! that’s not so bad!
thanks for reading & yes you must listen in - a very dramatic rendering.
apocolypse & armageddon? you’re giving it a much wider canvass than it deserves …surely… thanks!
i’m just so glad you found some point of identification & if it inspires your creativity i’m so happy!
November 12th, 2008 at 1:02 am
roy i was so hoping for an authorial insight - probe into the psyche kind of thing - but i ask for too much - i forget people have other more imp. tasks at hand
but i really liked that quote: I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free
but i dont agree to that other part: “I know nothing, therefore I am free.”
November 12th, 2008 at 2:42 am
Hey Clem — I’m here in Mt. Shasta City sipping on a pint of Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey, no brandy for me tonight. Not sirree!! I’m going back to the more mundane, profane roots of life and tieing one on with old No. 7, both a whiskey and a memory which demands my attention every so often… Not that I mind…
Anyway, Mt. Shasta City is in Northern California on the northern flanks of the the tallest mountain in California where the weather systems meet and the sky- ods throw blunderbusses and lightning at each other in the moon lit sky. I have been so in love with this place ever since the Bagel Cafe in Mary’s Inn where the Beatles came to commune with the Maharishi (sp?). Local tradition is that Mary’s Inn was the inspiration for “Let it Be” — You know, Mother Mary Come to Me. Mother Mary of Mary’s Inn was Sister Thedra. It is a magical, wonderful, sensual, eerie kind of place and I LOVE IT!!
So, what is your important news? I’ll be up and around the computer for a bit and will be checking my email, too.
BTW — I don’t know about you, but I am in awe at the raw earthiness of Deb Bee’s poems. So, now I am envious of you and Deb — But, sounds like you both did better in school than me…
November 12th, 2008 at 2:42 am
no, i tried google earth but no candid shot of you on the pot…just joking.
I didnt google earth you.
I am secretly nosey.
Forgive me for googling you.
I have listened to the reading by Sir Doug and it is very dramatic and crescends, etc.
I was talking to a fellow walker and apparently the ocean is warm now…doubt it.
But watch this space for more adventures of Deb, Bronx & the beach.
He better bloody come back or you may have to pick him up for me Clematis, if he gets sucked out on those warm pacific flows.
November 12th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Okay, Clematis — I’ve finally had time to re-read this and here is some of what I think. Understand, I’m not all the educated and am in many ways an auto-didadact, if I dare to say even that about myself. So, forgive me my ignorant plunge into this really fascinating piece. I’m not very good with psychoanalytic criticism, I leave that to the pedants. But, honestly, what I see here is life is a death trap. Life is infinitely less preferable than death. Death is an escape from an unbearable destruction of being.
Honestly, I think there are cultural overtones (and undercurrents) which I’m definitely not qualified to address. But, to some extent we are all cursed by our ancestors. Whether we like it or not, we are all somehow held captive not just by our past, but all the pasts which preceded us. In India as perhaps no place else, Castes were (and are, I think) defining.
In this, I sense a desperate need not to be cast in a life not wanted, nor needed. And so, the price of escape is life. Everything is inside out. Truths learned are not true. Truth lies (didn’t I say that once?). But in life there are no truths. Truth lies outside life and so it bites the dust. Death and truth are one. I think I agree — But, I think if I had said that you would have really come after me. There is no truth. Without truth, true love cannot exist…
November 12th, 2008 at 3:59 am
deb - thanks for listening in - that’s ok - i dont think much will come out of googling.
we will watch out for more adventures with you & bronx & the beach
roy is up on the tallest mountain in california deb - where the weather systems meet and the sky- ods throw blunderbusses and lightning at each other in the moon lit sky.
so unless he’s hit by one one of those odd blunderbusses (whatever that means) & lightning he should be back.
but yea california is by the sea - but dont worry if he does get sucked in by one of those warm pacific flows i promise to pull him out for you - rest assured - i’m a real baywatch queen!!
roy goddamn it you better take care of yourself - no falling from the cliff & drowning into the sea - & if you do better holler loud & clear.
right debbee never fear he’s gonna shout for his life!
November 12th, 2008 at 4:04 am
but with roy & his adventures you can never tell - never really tell - he almost got eaten by a croc once - i say almost - ‘cos you’ll never believe me - if i say he did - & then lived to tell the tale.
i get quite jumpy myself whenever he mentions travel - but with the laptop on his side (some people make do with god) - i think there’s nothing to fear.
roy you better make sure you got that ole damn laptop booted up all the time
November 12th, 2008 at 4:18 am
he’s sipping brandy on Facebook.
He better no slip into the pacific and become weeds on my beach.
Bronx WILL piddle on him, he’s getting quite possessive of our shores these days…
He’ll drop by soon.
His shout…ha ha ha
November 12th, 2008 at 4:32 am
Never been piddled on by a dog before…. Well, except when I dressed as a Fire Hydrant on Halloween…
November 12th, 2008 at 4:35 am
Here is a link for blunderbusses — my apologies, thought the term was universal… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunderbuss
November 12th, 2008 at 4:38 am
Hey Deb — Not to worry. I did google earth and got the pot…
November 12th, 2008 at 4:47 am
i’m really impressed by your analysis i’m speechless i’m so glad i asked for it i dont think i should ever feel bad about that ‘cos you come up with real gems:
Death is an escape from an unbearable destruction of being. - that is so great! i dont think the greatest existentialist could have expressed that better - altho i know you dont like labels.
yes we are - held captive not just by our past, but all the pasts which preceded us.
& yes the caste system is very defining here as color is there. but much less now - none at all in the cities.
Everything is inside out. Truths learned are not true. - that is abs. so right
truth - lies - yea i think you said that first & i think i stole that subconsciously perhaps - or shamelessly
But in life there are no truths. Truth lies outside life and so it bites the dust. Death and truth are one.
o that’s just so great & you’ve given the poem so much depth its amazing - so i’m really pleased i asked & complelled you to write otherwise i wouldnt have got this - goes to show you have to ask if you want something - as they say : just ask for it.
well i’m compelled to rethink the whole poem & i see it in a new light - more meaningful.
i thought i was writing about life - the crux being mental state of being - sacrificing myself to the alter of pain suffering & fear. & a wierd surreal reality - but i like it you see some sort of history here - culture & ancestral heritage - it gives so much substance to the poem.
death & truth are one - the conclusion has blown my mind away! how very true! i do salut you roy!
& how true you are if you had said that in any of your poems i would have bloodied you
well if death & truth are one - there is truth so your other conclusion is quite wrong - love is death & the highest form of truth.
thank you for the time & trouble - but i need to be thanked in equal measure for the philosophies & thoughts i’m inspiring.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Clematis — First, I am flattered. Secondly, no time and trouble. All pleasure, if a bit bit by the brandy…
It is just my simple interpretation of your verse. I know I certainly could not have conveyed it better — but, I know better than to try. But, about this being compelled…. I am not compelled by anyone or anything. I would not comment if I did not like what I saw - And you have to know there are so many posts here on which I do not comment. I am not much interested in the pedant or the true-believer (there are several of them here and, regretfully, more posting all the time) and do not reply to any of their posts. Further, I do not believe anybody comes up with anything worthy of consideration or comment more than at least once per week/month — that includes me. Some posts (katy’s, art’s, ida’s, debbee’s, yours) are incredible, but the dilution beyond that … Strike me if I ever say “Friend Roy,” okay?
November 12th, 2008 at 5:16 am
deb - being piddled on by bronx would be infinitely better than being eaten alive!
so that’s what blunderbuss is who would have thought - not me - thanks for the elightning
in my dictionery blunderbuss was a guy who makes many blunders!
& you got to listen to this story & i hope you’ll read it too deb - we’d gone on a holiday to this wild life sanctuary in india - a tiger sanctuary - where they take you on a safari on an elephant - & the mahut we had - well a mahut is the guy who drives the elephant - well he was one-eyed & would blunder into tiger territory & actually gave us the most exciting thrilling adventure you can have in the wild. we saw 5 tigers on that one trip - which is very rare - just blundering our way through - thanks to him! & so he was called blunderbuss!
November 12th, 2008 at 5:23 am
Blunderbuss — In the vernacular, someone who stumbles all over the place involving all kinds of innocents, but quite unintentionally, quite an oaf!
November 12th, 2008 at 5:27 am
friend roy - that’s exactly why i’m honored thrilled humbled pleased happy singing & feeling so smug!
well i can see more & more people trying to write like you emulating you so to speak & i think you should be flattered -
writing poetry is great learning process & we all live & learn & emulate & try to be better. so be more kind & considerate please.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Clematis — I would argue with you about the castes. I think the system of belonging or not is so pervasive that it permeates all levels of Hindu Indian culture, whether in India or abroad. Of all the international cultures I have encountered in the U.S., the Indians are the most insular. Except for business and even in the third generation, one seldom finds an Indian man or woman who is not somehow held captive by their beliefs. In the United States, more so than with any other immigrant group, Indians remain insular — the women in particular. Whether or not that is true in India I do not know, but in my experience in the U.S. it is. However faulty, that is to some extent, the basis for my comments here.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I am honored, I think, if more try to write like me. But, I would prefer they write for and like themselves. We will all be the better for it. I write for myself, first. If others like it, great! If not, well I didn’t write for them in the first place.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:41 am
I’m sorry if I was not kind & considerate. All I want is for others to express what they feel or think, not what they thing others should feel or think! I’m really getting a bit pissed by the suggestion that I should accept their shoulds. I don’t mean any disrespect to anybody, but the pedantry is trying.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:53 am
well you’re right they are held captive by their beliefs religion culture & you’r so right esp. the indian americans - they lead an insular life - well the women have so many restrictions imposed on them traditionally in india women were very conservative -
& yea we we’re surprised ourselves when we came to the u.s. hardly any indian family had white / black /spanish / mexican friends - but my son’s generation - well he hardly has any indian friends most of them are whites etc.
in india its another story altogether - here we’re in our own country perhaps we dont feel threatened / insecure / or any such reason to huddle together. we used to do this international kite festival & we have friends all over the world including down under - similarly the indians here have businesses etc. that requires travel or interaction with foreigners - we dont need to be insular - we’re in our own country - we’re not immigrants - i think that immigrant label must be quite daunting -
as for me i would hate to live in another country - i’m so pissed with mine but i love it
but indians as a rule migrate in large quantities to foreign shores for economic reasons - they see a better life for themselves - financially & they do bloody well abroad! i’ve seen indians in kenya / america / southeast asia - doing bloody well for themselves.
well indians have a very strong notion of their culture religion & beliefs
there are some freaks like us who were born on doors / dylan/ hendrix - the beat generation of course.
but one thing i can tell you they’re damn well educated - silicon valley is full of indians - well they’re brainy all right !
November 12th, 2008 at 6:08 am
o shushhhhhh roy dont be so angry its ok we’re here to have fun & learn & enjoy the thoughts & company of others
now you’re sounding like a spoilt brat which exactly you are - you write when you want comment when you want - just make sure you comment at length on all my poems - well i’m damn selfish - to tell you the truth that’s the only thing i’m bothered about.
you dont have to accept anything you dont want - (except mine & any others you want of course you have to accept) what i mean is accept what you want to accept except for me where you have to accept what you dont want i could be the exception to the rule if it’s ok with you & even if not
really roy you’re getting pissed for nothing at all - just enjoy & live life kingsize amen.
November 12th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Thank You! Coming from a culture which places a premium on knowledge (I’m Jewish) I really appreciate the Indian contribution to American culture. I think it is a bit unfortunate that the emphasis is first and foremoste (it seems to me) on material measurements. On the other hand, that is usually the primary measurement of first and second generaton immigrants here, whatever their background. Each immigrant group to the U.S. seems to find its niche — Jews became lawyers and accountants and professors because those were the economic niches available. The irish (also part of my heritage) — well, a lot of them became cops in NY and Chicago. But, each of those immigrant groups (including the Jews) moved and married outside of their communities. Not so much the Indians.
I don’t mean to diminish or denigrate anyone’s importance — these are simply my observations drawn from the last 50 or so years of my life. In the U.S. the Koreans, the Thai, the Chinese (though with some restraints), the Armenian, the Japanese, the Viet Namese, the Mexicans, the Ecuadoreans, the Nicaraguans, etc. all seem intent on making sure their children become assimilated. This is demonstrably less true of Indians in the U.S. — They do very well. But they do very well by hanging together rather than through assimilation.
Perhaps I am wrong. I hope I am. I fear I am not.
November 12th, 2008 at 6:19 am
I have to comment on yours because you are so god damned good. And, I like you. I’m not angry — far from it, but i do have a tendency to say what i think or feel without becoming a missionary to others. Excepting your comments (somewhat moralistic) to my posts, your poems aren’t giving me any shoulds so I can appreciate them simply for what they are — felt expressions of momentous thoughts.
November 12th, 2008 at 6:20 am
O shuuusshhh — sushhh a great expression! All other comments aside, I take it in the spirit in which it was said… thank you!
November 12th, 2008 at 6:24 am
I know I’m making a lot of comments here — but I just had to say, if there was an exception to the rule, it would be you…
November 12th, 2008 at 6:25 am
you’re perfectly right - marriage is foremost in their own community - whereas in other communities there are lots of inter-marriages - indians like to marry indians - my son by the way is getting married to a canadian - a real lovely girl! we’re well pleased!
being a jew you’re cribbing about materialism! i really like that! even old willy never forgot the materialistic jew & immortalized him for all times to come in shylock - merchant of venice.
well jews are pretty insular too & what more they look it too!
November 12th, 2008 at 6:27 am
i just think an indian is an island - so complete in himself
November 12th, 2008 at 6:29 am
& i’m the exception to the rule
November 12th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Clematis — Microsoft decided to update and it was probably a good idea it did as it erased some pretty intemperate comments of mine.
Still, I’d like to point out that outside of doing well for themselves (which comes from the premium based on knowledge) Jews in the U.S. have been consistently concerned about the well-being and justice of groups other than themselves. There is also a sense of fairness and justice which has caused them to ally themselves with African Americans. In the 60’s it was the Catholics and the Jews almost exclusively among non-blacks who put their lives on the lines for African Americans. There were no Protestants, Buddhists, or Hindus involved. While the Beatles were coming to Mt. Shasta City to meet the Maharishi (sp?) African Americans, Catholics, and Jews were being killed in the American south. There is something in Catholicism and Judaism, seemingly not present in other major religious beliefs, which causes (requires) adherents to put their beliefs on the line for non-believers. I don’t find that in Islam, Prostentatism, Buddhism, or Hinduism. Perhaps I am a victim of my own myopia - i would like to be persuaded.
In Central America, it was the Catholics who implemented “Liberation Theology.” The idea that the church was there to serve the least, as opposed to the most, fortunate. In the United States the strongest adherents of liberation theology were (no surprise) Catholics and Jews. The people from the U.S. who lost their lives in Central America? Catholics and Jews.
In my experience and my life there are many who are driven by and measure success by material measures alone. Jews and Catholics are not among them. Whatever their other faults (and I have battled Jews on many fronts) a knowledge of and an appreciation of the need for a just legal system for everyone is not among them.
Napoleon effectively destroyed the Jewish ghettoes in Western Europe. I’m not sure how my steel-gray blue eyes make me look either Jewish or insular. Further, I think your comment is more intended to put me on the defensive than to illuminate. I will change my perspective when I witness Indians working for peace and justice for non-Indians. I would like to believe it has happened already, but I cannot remember if it has. I am willing to be persuaded.
It would be better to not be an island — somehow I thing either John Donne or Simon & Garfunkel would agree
November 12th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Okay — I’ve finished my Brandy and will retire for the morning and await your blast a little later in the am… But, may I say in my own defense, anything? roy
November 13th, 2008 at 1:35 am
well roy i’m just grinning from ear to ear…ask me why
i just got this mes. on my mail - that one of my comments was… & i quote:
‘very welcome on a chill, grey November morning - like a bright fire blazing in the grate.
Cheers!’
& how ironical to come here & find this…..not quite the same effect eh?
& not without reason either…well i’m sorry but i didnt mean to offend. i took all those things you said about indians rather sportingly - agreeing without doubt ‘cos most of the things are true.
well that looking insular bit comes from seeing jews in amsterdam on the diamond street & they looked very insular - i’m sorry but that’s the picture that’s stayed in my mind & that’s the truth.
but thanks for enlightning me i really had no knowledge of all the things you write about & it is highly commendable.
we indians on the other hand have been so busy trying to look after our own selves it seems we have little time for anything else & that’s sad.
well historically we’ve always been a conquered race - invaded by the turks - the mughals & then the british - we got our independence as late as 1947! which is quite unbelievable - some of us were born in free india & most were not.
i think there must be something lacking in us - to be forever conquered!
& we’re a very poor nation - half the people live below the poverty line - that means they dont have food clothing shelter - failure of the govt. & over population.
but once i think we were a highly evolved spiritual race - if we go by the facts & the no. of spiritual men, ancient scriptures etc. available to us. i dont know if we ever imparted that knowledge but some of guys travelled far & wide spreading spiritual knowledge - buddha gave the world his teachings - & has many followers to this day. there are many more like swami vivekananda etc. who travelled as far as the U.S / Europe etc. Gandhi fought for his own country but he did send out the message of peace & non-violence. perhaps these things are obsolete - but even today we have a lot of people coming from the west to imbibe our culture - art & teachings. so the average middle class person today might be insular - marry in his own community etc etc. but to say we contributed nothing to our fellowmen at home or abroad is wrong.
besides as many indians settle abroad because india is a poor country & they have better oppurtunities elsewhere - they take it. the indian culture - be it food - music or anything else is assimilated by other cultures that is but natural - i mean we eat a lot of chinese - thai food here - & ofcourse macdonalds is round every corner & we all wear levi jeans! well…. that’s contribution too!!
are your eyes really steel-gray blue? wow!! that’s like the sea & sky rolled in one! mine are mud-black!
so i will drink only with thine eyes.
well i hope the defence has rested enough…
November 13th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Honestly, when I saw there was an additional comment I approached with trepidation because if I know one thing about myself it is that while I usually never try to offend, sometimes I do mightily and then the piper must be paid. Yes. There are many, many things I admire about Indian culture and you are right, I had totally ignored what I consider to be the greatest of all — Civil disobedience, how to be passive aggressive in the pursuit of peace and justice.
I see Indians all over the world I travel and have travelled and am thankful when I can latch onto some really great sag paneer (probably have that all wrong, but I mean spinach…). Most of the motels I stay at in the states are owned by Indians and they are usually named “Patel” — kinda like “Smith” for the Brits I imagine.
I’ve always wanted to go to India, but I hate being a tourist. When I go places I like to hang-out where the locals are — I’m not much of a sight-seer and can’t wait to escape museums and galleries. Probably, I’m very limited in what I learn or know because I’m not too interested seeing the sights, being guided or taken on tours, or viewing what dead people did. It is life which interests me. I’ll be dead soon enough and then I’ll have plenty of time for the dead…
Hey! Just listened to a British filmmaker who just released a movie made in Mumbai’s slums. It follows the fictional careers of two brothers — one becomes a crime syndicate enforcer and the other a tea server at a call center, quite a step. The film maker was talking about the big slum (2 million people I think he said) in Mumbai, I think he said north. His comments about how the people in the slums provide their own organization and that in some respects the failures are generally government failures not local ones were quite interesting.
When I first went to Tijuana with some friends they were all for grabbing a taxi to the plaza, I told them to go ahead that I would walk from the border and find them there. I wanted to experience the as best I could the poverty and the hope of the ghetto. I spent a week walking all over the ghettos of Tijuana just for my education. Slept on concrete floors with strangers. It was fun, but my friends were worried. More about that some other time — When I come to India the experience I most want is of the slums, I always have.
going to la la land now — have a long day ahead tomorrow.
ciao
November 14th, 2008 at 1:18 am
when you come to mumabi - you can experience all the slum life you want - mumbai has the biggest slums in asia in a place called dharavi - it’s quite amazing & the activities that go on there - from the biggest leather industry to all kinds….
no where in india is slum life so apparent - people live on the streets - there is so much activity on the pavements - when we go to other countrires we feel nothing is happening!
all the slumlife is centered here - the other states are pretty clean.
on the other hand you have the very rich & bollywood & the underworld - so all the poverty - glitz & glamour - make it a throbbing vibrant city - very dirty very posh very smelly very everything….& it can get in your system - you hate it & love it & always want more.
space is permium here - like tokyo - only highrise buildings & slums.
a guy - rather an escaped convict from australia - gregory david roberts wrote this wonderful novel - ’shantaram’ which is being made into a movie by mira nair & jhonny depp is acting - david spent many years in mumbai after escaping - the book is the bestbook i’ve ever read by a foreigner or an indian on india - mumbai to be precise - it is not a documentary but a fast paced action packed real life experience in mumbai with the underworld as the back drop - it is a thick novel but every page is interesting - he lived in the slums - it’s a fascinating book - so if you can get hold of it - read it - you’ll love it - i’m not saying that because its based in india - but the story is mindblowing!
& of course if you come to mumbai you can hang around with us - we have a tiny apartment - but it will do - we’ll take you all over - to the worst places possible & the best & you have to combine that with rajasthan & goa - india is too big to see in one lifetime -but those two places are a must - but you have to come really prepared to brave the sights sound & smell - india assults the senses & it is rather overwhelming but inspite of all that is gory it is an experience like no other. you see it is not pretty or anything - not quite like europe & the U.S. - you dont land here & say - how lovely how nice & how beautiful - not quite like newzealand either - deb - nz has breathtaking beauty. well you cant say those things ‘cos everything is drab & dirty - but ah! you have to look beyond all that - & that’s the real test - an acid one! - but that mostly goes for mumbai. & then you have the jungles - the villages - the forts & palaces - those are nice
& sag paneer is right! sag is actually any green leafy veg. normally we call it palak paneer. you can eat all the indian food you want - personally i go very easy on the oil & spices . indian food is great but i dont like the way some people smother it with oil & too much spice.
well actually you can love india or hate it - there’s no in between - some foreigneres cant get enough & some never return after the first visit.
& yea here we say our country runs inspite of the govt. take it or leave it - that’s why many leave - & we who stay on we’ve learnt to say - we’re like that only - famous indian saying.
inspite of all the cribbing i wouldnt be anywhere else.
November 14th, 2008 at 2:41 am
I think I’d love it…. When I left home and went to the city and everyone said, well you don’t want to go there those are the slums — what they called slums looked palatial to me. Nothing like Mumbai, I’m sure, but we were literally 7 kids plus 2 parents in less than a one bedroom house. No siding, gaps in the floor, the wind blew through — hot in the summer, bitter cold in the winter. Only warm right in front of the stove, everyplace else cold. U.S. city slums looked like nirvana to me…. Where life is used close to the edge there is really life, not the pretense.
I’m going to try to find a copy of Roy’s Guide to the Dark Side and send it to you — remind me if I forget — I think you’ll dig it…
good night, roy
November 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think you’re quite talented! your comments were just as poetic as the poem itself! brilliant!